This Week in Google 286 (Transcript)
Leo: It's time for TWiG, This
Week in Google. Great panel, Mike Elgan joins Jeff
Jarvis and me. We'll talk about the FCC's proposal to use Title 2, victory or
not? We'll also find out what Google is up to with some of its more oddball
project. And I've got a tip for people who want to learn to do a little
programming. It's all coming up next on TWiG.
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Leo: This is TWiG, This Week in
Google, episode 286 record February 4th, 2015.
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This is TWiG, This Week in
Google, the show were we talk about Google, the Cloud, the Cloud-e-verse. When
is Gina coming back for an episode? Is it next month, next week, next hour?
Jason: Let me take a look at the schedule, I believe it is
next week.
Leo: Hey, yay! Jeff and I miss Gina. But don't worry, we've got great people in her place. Jeff Jarvis is
here, professor of journalism at the City University of New York. He's got his
Chromebook Pixel. He's patting it because we've compelled him to use an unnamed
computer for his Skype.
Jeff: A liberal, commie computer.
Leo: But boy, doesn't that look
good?
Jeff: Oh, rub it in.
Leo: It's okay. Just think of this as a dedicated video
conferencing device, not a computer. You never have to use this ever.
Jason: Look, our tricaster runs on
a Windows machine but you'd never know it because it's the tricaster.
Leo: Exactly. We're running Windows 7.
Jeff: Ew,
cooties!
Leo: Exactly. Jeff is the author of Public Parts, What Would
Google Do?, Gutenberg the Geek, and his latest, Geeks Bearing Gifts: Reimagining News in the
Modern World.
Jeff: Ain't that exciting?
Leo: Ain't that the greatest?
Buzzmachine.com is his blog. Look who's here, Mike Elgan,
our news director from TNT. Mike is the most popular man on Google+,
practically.
Mike: Yes, me and Lady Gaga. We're the most popular men.
Leo: Also a writer at Computer World and other magazines.
He's an expert in the Cloud and Google. We should get you on more but I don't
want to overburden you because you have to do TNT every Monday through Friday.
Mike: This show is like a vacation, a tropical island.
Jeff: It's dessert.
Leo: It is dessert and boy, is it going to be a filling
meal. Let's start with the FCC. Tom Wheeler, in an editorial, published on
Wired, clearly reaching out to us, to the geeks. Saying, and
you know, it's interesting. Dan Gilmore wrote an article apologizing to
Tom Wheeler for mis-characterizing him as a shill. I
wonder – I guess -
Jeff: That's very Dan. That's very neat for him to do.
Leo: I guess Oliver was going to have to say, “I'm sorry
for calling you a -” What did he call him, a dingo? John Oliver is off the air
right now, he's in hiatus. But when he comes back, he's going to have to say,
“I'm sorry I called you a dingo.”
Jeff: Well, the devil is in the details, let's see the full
language. But so far, so good.
Leo: Well, now I'm scared. We got what we wanted. Tom
Wheeler has agreed to use Title 2 of the Telecommunications Act of 1934, while
tailoring it for the 21st century, in order to create a competitive
network in order to prevent fast-lane prioritization. You know, it's actually
interesting. He refers to – and I had forgotten this, a startup he did in the
'80s called Nabu.
Jeff: This is the most fascinating part to me, what happened
is that he tried to do high speed back in the day but it required working with
cable companies. And cable companies effed him and it
came home to roost.
Leo: And AOL beat him. He said, “We were delivering 1.5
megabits per second.” Back in the '80s, that was amazing. Steve Case was dialup
and Case – Wheeler says, “Case told me at the time, we used to worry a lot
about Nabu.” But Nabu went
broke while AOL, obviously, became very successful. Wheeler writes why that is,
highlights the fundamental problem with allowing networks to act as
gatekeepers. While delivering better service, Nabu had to depend on cable television operators granting access to their system.
Steve Case of AOL was not only a brilliant entrepreneur but he had access to an
unlimited number of customers nationwide who only had to attach a modem to
their phone line. The phone network was open.
Jeff: Because the FCC made it open.
Leo: Cable networks were closed, end of story. For Tom
Wheeler to say that, to me, gives him a lot of street cred.
Jeff: You know what, he's like a
sleeper cell for the EFF. It's kind of great, right? We thought he was going to
be a sellout because he had worked in the industry and all that but this
experience early in his career, the permission-less development, the ability to
reach people on an open network, he got it in his soul and came back. God bless
him. Let's just hope it stays this way. The cable companies and the telephone
companies, you screwed yourselves, guys. You know, you could have been nice.
You could have had a sign up that says, “Don't be evil.” You could have had a
sign up that said, “Just because we can doesn't mean we should.” You could have
had a sign up that said, “Let's not treat our customers like prisoners,” but
you didn't. So it's all come home to roost on the big old company and they're
all going to sue the FCC. The whole – [crosstalk]
Leo: AT&T already said it is.
Jeff: Oh, yes.
Leo: They said, “If you do this, we're in.” Here's an
interesting thing. He's actually gone farther than some people, including
Google, wanted him to go. He says, “Using the authority of Title 2, I am
submitting to my colleagues, the other commissioners of the FCC, the strongest
open internet protections ever proposed by the FCC. These enforceable, bright
line rules will ban paid prioritization, fast lanes, and the blocking and
throttling of lawful content and services.” But here's where he's going -
Jeff: The best is yet to come, here. This is the good part.
Leo: This is really interesting. “I propose to fully apply,
for the first time ever, those bright line rules to mobile broadband.”
Mike: That's a huge deal. A huge, huge
deal.
Leo: That is huge. Even Google acknowledged, in its amicus
filing with Verizon, that broadband should be treated differently than mobile.
Jeff: In Google's devil deal with Verizon. I've never been
more ashamed of Google at that moment, and I screamed about it in this show. It
was a moment of prostitution to try to make nice to phone companies. It was
never going to re-yield anything but Google said, “We'll apply net neutrality
to wired line, not to mobile.” It was wrong, it was evil and God bless, Tom
Wheeler is less evil than Google right now.
Mike: For now. Two things to look out for. One of them is coming up to the punchline of them embracing mobile was the fact
that it says that any sort of legal, we have to allow.
Leo: Legal content.
Mike: Yes, so that is determined by lawmakers. And the
lawmakers are going to be the fly in the ointment here. It's Congress and a
minority of Republicans in Congress that are going to want to attack and
destroy this. Of course, the lobbyists, Wheeler's former colleagues, are going
to be attacked Congress in all this. So that's risky. Secondly, Wheeler said
specifically that, “What I have giveth, the future FCC chairman can taketh away
in a couple of years.” So that makes me nervous. The precedent is huge, though.
It gives it a lot of weight and gives us a good shot of having net neutrality
going forward. But you have to realize that if we didn't get net neutrality
right now, we would never get it. Most countries are leaning towards no net
neutrality because once again, as is the case in the United States and
everywhere, the companies, there's so much money to be made in screwing the
consumer and providing -
Jeff: Well, Europe, to its regulatory credit, is going for
net neutrality all around. I saw Utenger, the new
digital head in Europe, and I'm scared of what [0:09:27] is going to do. I
think he's going to do a European-wide, get ready for it, Leistungsschutzrecht.
But they sing the song of net neutrality in Europe. I think that we were behind
on that and this might put us back to where we ought to be.
Mike: I got the feeling that they started to go strong with
net neutrality early in last year, in spring of last year, and then by the end
of the year they were saying, “You know, on second thought, maybe we ought to
just kind of tinker with it a little bit.”
Jeff: Well, that's the risk always. Yes.
Mike: So that's problematic. But it remains to be seen, I
think. The biggest thing is that people can't relax now. Everybody who wrote
letters -
Leo: Write to your member of Congress now.
Mike: Exactly, because now is when we win it or lose it.
Jeff: Amen.
Leo: Now, he did do – first, when I read the headline, I
went, “Gulp.” Because we got what we wanted but now I'm nervous about what the
other side has said all along which is, you don't want the federal government,
especially the FCC, regulating the internet. Because there's all sorts of stuff in Title 2 that gives them power to do. He was very clear
that he intends to honor President Obama's notion of forbearance, not enforcing
everything. He says he wants to create incentives for broadband operators to
invest. So he's going to modernize Title 2, for instance, no rate regulation –
this was something everybody was a little worried about.
Jeff: That's critical for them.
Leo: No tariffs, no last mile unbundling … what's that?
Jeff: That's – in Britain, I think this is what it means.
Tell me if I'm wrong, chat room. But in Britain, BTE puts the fiber or puts the
cable into your house but it's like your power line. Others can lease it.
Leo: Why wouldn't we want last mile unbundling?
Jeff: I think we would but I think that's a big stop to the
cable companies and that's what it takes.
Leo: He's saying, “If you spent the money, the capital
investment, to get the last mile, you're going to continue to own that last
mile.” And that is true that it may – and the FCC decided this the last time
this came up more than a decade ago. They gave a monopoly to the cable
companies in every region, saying, “Look, you're going to invest a lot of money
in infrastructure. You need to be able to monetize.” That was what they saw as
necessary to incent investment. He said, “Over the last 21 years, the wireless
industry has invested almost $300 billion under similar rules proving that
modernized Title 2 regulation can encourage investment and competition.” I have
to say, last mile unbundling has happened on phone companies. AT&T and
others have to unbundle, right? So I'm not convinced that's -
Jeff: What do you mean? NVNOs?
Leo: No, no. Not mobile, but in landline, in DSL, it's
unbundled. The last mile has been put in by AT&T or Verizon but you can get
it from Sonic Net, or DSL Extreme or some other provider.
Jeff: Right, which is not the case here. But I would – [crosstalk]
Leo: I would like to see that on cable.
Jeff: The other important decision, which was a few days
ago, which is, the administration saying that they're going to fight the
limitations on towns over-building and competing with cable companies.
Leo: Municipal internet is the right answer to all of this,
I think. Well, so this all sounds very good. In fact, the EFF writing today say, “Today we are celebrating. Chairman Wheeler's
announcement signals the FCC is at long last making real progress on net
neutrality.” But they do agree, “The battle is not over. We need to ensure the
FCC rules will actually do what is needed to protect the open internet and no
more.” I think that, Mike, you're absolutely right. This is, now it's time to
write your Congress critter and say, “You know, good.
Now, let's promote competition. Let's promote investment.” I don't think
unbundling the last mile is a bad idea.
Mike: Here's the thing. I think that this is going to be
made, if it hasn't already been made, into a left-right issue with people on
the right being told that this is a government regulation. And it is a
government regulation thing, to a certain extent. So those reflexes are being
exercised and this is not the issue to exercise those reflexes, in my opinion,
because the alternative to so-called “government regulation” where there's a
level playing field, essentially, and where all traffic has to be treated
equally is that Comcast is in charge of determining these things. Comcast has
demonstrated that it just will screw customers over for a buck at every chance
it gets.
Jeff: Yes, I agree, Mike. That's what I was saying before,
too. I think that the telecommunications industry could have avoided this. They
could have shown that they weren't evil. There really is an attitude of, “If we
can, we will. We will charge you for every little thing. We're going to screw
you over. We're going to treat you like prisoners.” It's a business – it's a
prisoner business model, like an airline prisoner business model. They've
brought it upon themselves. No one trusts them. No one trusts them. They have
to buy their friends in Congress and that's what will come to bear now. We'll
see what the power of the lobbying is. But Wheeler clearly heard the country
speak and then listened.
Leo: AT&T warned that Title 2 is far from bulletproof.
Boy, they just – they didn't pull any punches. Hank Hultquist writing on the AT&T Public Policy blog said that, “Today we made a couple
of filings at the FCC disputing its authority to reclassify ISPs as common
carriers.” He says, “This decision is driven by political considerations. We
think they're going to do it but we ought to warn them, we're going to court
and we don't think it's sustainable. We think court will overturn it.” Just as Verizon won in court with the FCC's open internet
regulations. I have to point out, though, that court told the FCC, “If
you were to pursue Title 2, we might be able to support you on this.”
Mike: Right. That's why they went against them because Title
2 was not the law of the land.
Leo: They're quoting Justice Scalia's dissenting opinion in
a Supreme Court decision. Brand X – of course, a dissent has no weight in law
at all. But they, I think, hold out hope that Justice Scalia will support them
if it goes to the Supreme Court.
Mike: I'm not worried about AT&T's lawsuit. I'm worried
about AT&T's “by the congress” budget. They give more to campaign contributions
and other financing than any other company.
Leo: Okay, here's their argument. See, this doesn't seem
completely wrong to me and again, they're quoting Justice Scalia. He said,
“ISPs are not merely an information service. They're a transmission service.”
He compared them to pizzerias that offer a combination of pizza and home
delivery, or a pet store that sells dogs but includes the leash. He -
Jeff: I'm getting a headache.
Leo: Scalia's notorious for this. “We disagree with
Scalia's view that ISPs simultaneously offer both information and
telecommunications services,” says AT&T. “The FCC has long adhered to an
interpretation of the statute under which both these definitions are mutually
exclusive. You can't be both a telecommunications
service, a transport and an information service.”
Mike: I don't understand that analogy. In
what way does your average ISP – you know, obviously the Comcast and so on are
serving up both content and bandwidth. Is that what they're talking
about? They shouldn't. They shouldn't be doing that. You shouldn't get your
puppy from the same place you get the leash or whatever. We want dumb pipes,
the dumber the better and the bigger the better. That's what we want and that's
what we need in
order to compete with the rest of the world economically. That's what we need
in order to retain our status as an economic superpower. We need these things.
We can't be nickeled and dimed to death by -
Jeff: So – sorry.
Mike: No, go ahead.
Jeff: Dumb pipes are a commodity and they know that. The
value will come in the unique content and we're going to buy that from Netflix,
not from Comcast. That's exactly what they're afraid of and they know it. They
know this is happening. They know it's inevitable now.
This is not a big surprise to them, they're just trying to fight to the last
rather than say, “This is where the world is going. Why don't we start our own
damn Netflix and compete like crazy on the basis of quality?”
Leo: I have to think this Public Policy blog is aimed at
Congressional staffers and, if they understood it, members of Congress. It's
essentially laying out the argument.
Mike: “This is what we paid you to say. Here it is.”
Leo: “This is what you should be saying now.” So not only
are we talking lawsuit, we're talking severe lobbying along these lines. We'll
see. Tom Wheeler, I apologize. You're not a dingo or a shill for the
telecommunications and cable companies. You are a free man and you've done the
right thing, I think, so far. And I think, in a very nuanced way, it protects a little bit the people – we did a great debate on TWiT a few months ago with two internet service providers
on different sides of this. I think that he's saying the things here that will
reassure the ISP Larry at Wyoming, who was very concerned about getting a
heavy-handed government regulation in his business while protecting the
internet. So it seems like he's done a good job on this. Let's hope so.
You wrote a good article, Mike, on Computer World.
Mike: Thank you.
Leo: “Seven Smart Phone Rules That Change This Week.” That
kind of ties along – this was before the FCC position.
Mike: It was, but the FCC lately has been, in the month of
January, changing everything for smart phone users. They're very pro user,
exactly. So just quickly going through these. Carriers, if you recall, the FTC actually and the FCC are both working
together. But basically, the FTC said that the TracFone – they basically ordered the prepaid mobile provider TracFone to pay a fine of $40 million because they throttled an unlimited data plan. So
essentially, that established the rule – these aren't laws, these are just
rules, basically. But everybody has to adhere to these precedents where you can
sell unlimited data plans and you can throttle data but they can't be the same
plan. If they call it -
Leo: Yes, the FTC was clear to say, “This is not a rule
against throttling. This is a false advertising thing. You can't say unlimited
in an advertisement and then throttle.”
Mike: Exactly.
Leo: Actually, I think that's a little controversial
because unlimited means as many bits as you want. Throttling just means, “We're
going to give them to you slower.”
Mike: But taken to an extreme, you can imagine if they give
you one megabyte and then after that, it's the speed of a 300 bod modem but
it's unlimited.
Jeff: The intention is clear. But here's, Mike, the eighth
rule that's not there is that hotels can sell high speed, but it ain't high speed. They should be held to account for what
they sell.
Leo: Right, and this was the
second change that they made, which was the FCC declared that true broadband,
they upgraded it. It used to be 4 megabits down, 1 megabit up. Now it's 20
megabits down, 3 megabits up. What does that change, this new definition of broadband.
Mike: It changes the idea that they're going to be selling a
4 megabit per second connection and calling it broadband. But everybody uses
broadband now to be synonymous with just internet connectivity. We do it all
the time and we journalists do it all the time, call it a mobile broadband, for
example. Well, there's a lot of data connectivity that's super, super, super
slow and we're calling it broadband. Broadband used to be a distinction to
separate fast internet connectivity with slow internet connectivity and still,
25 megabits per second, I think, for downloads, is not that fast. It's a pretty
low hurdle.
Leo: The standards have changed over the years, obviously.
I would have been thrilled with a megabit and a half 15 years ago.
Mike: One of the co-anchors on Tech News Today is Elise
Hugh. She's moving to Seoul, Korea and she's going to become the Seoul Bureau
Chief for NPR. She was saying that they essentially define broadband as 100
megabits per second and everybody's got it.
Leo: But isn't that the government providing it? Is it a
government industry or a government-run system?
Mike: I think the government is squeezing – [crosstalk]
Leo: They've subsidized it, perhaps.
Mike: Something like that.
Leo: That's the issue. I mean, we hear a lot about Sweden
and South Korea, other countries where they have very inexpensive, very high
speed internet but in almost every case, it's subsidized, basically.
Mike: I don't see anything wrong with that.
Leo: No, I don't either.
Mike: I'm not a big, you know, “Government should be taxing
and spending.” But I saw a study, I think it was last year at some point,
somebody calculated how much it would cost to give everybody in the United
States Google Fiber level speeds. It was like a couple hundred billion bucks.
Basically, what we spent into Afghanistan in two weeks.
Leo: Apple should do it, right.
Mike: Exactly.
Leo: So it does have an unintended consequence. By
redefining broadband, you suddenly make Comcast 56% of all the broadband
market. They have more than half of all US broadband customers.
Jeff: Good point.
Leo: Ars Technica made that point, but a great point, and I don't know if that was an intended
consequence or not. But now, Congress has to grapple – or not the Congress, I
guess. Is it the FTC who has to rule on the Comcast/Time Warner merger?
Jeff: It's an anti-trust issue there.
Leo: Whoever is regulating that has to really now say, “Oh,
you really do have a lie in share.”
Jeff: I think what's happening here is in general, I think
we're finally getting the President we were waiting for. I think this is the
WTF period of Obama's administration. “What the hell, I'm going out. I might as
well do something good. I think that's what's happened with these regulations.
Leo: It's the FTL, find the
legacy, segment of the administration. It happens every presidency in the last remaining years, last couple years of their
presidency.
Mike: Especially start with President Obama because he did
so little in the first six years -
Leo: And yet said he was going to do so much.
Mike: Exactly.
Leo: Okay, I don't want to get political here. Well, just a
little bit. I think he deserves more credit for the healthcare access.
Jeff: Yes, he does. I agree. I absolutely agree.
Leo: I know it's so Obamacare and, you know, Fox News
thinks it's a really bad thing but I have to say that was something I never
thought and I don't think anybody ever thought would become the law of the
land. While it's not single-payer healthcare, which is clearly what needs to
happen, it's a huge step in that direction. Millions of people who were not
covered by any health insurance are now covered.
Mike: He also deserves blame for the website – in terms of
technology in particular, I think there's been a lot
of movement in Washington, both from Wheeler and from President Obama in the
right direction, whether you're on the left or the right. Personally, I hate it
when these things get kind of owned by the propagandists who want to divide
everybody.
Leo: Can we credit the internet population and all the
comments for this? Do we get credit for this?
Mike: I think there's a lot of credit to be given to – yes,
because essentially, these were the people who were paying attention, who have
a lot of money. Silicon Valley has a lot of money.
Leo: We sat up and we said, “We want this.” I think, maybe,
Wheeler and Obama said, “Oh. And these people vote? Okay.”
Jeff: “They give money?” Which they need to, and they lobby.
Leo: Item three on your list, hotels – Marriott gave up.
Mike: Yes.
Leo: Hotels cannot block your WiFi hotspot. Marriott said, “Okay, all right, all right.” Again, credit the
internet community.
Jeff: Wasn't there some fine print to that, though, Mike?
Mike: Not that I'm aware. I mean, essentially, the Marriott
actually implemented it in only one hotel. They were fined $600 thousand for
that. But this is not – this hasn't been formally established yet. But in
separate speeches, FCC commissioner Jessica Rosenworcel and Tom Wheeler both said, in very clear terms, that blocking should not be
allowed. Basically, pointed out their intention to not allow it and what was
really refreshing was that Rosenworcel actually said
that we need a lot more unlicensed spectrum that can be used for things like
personal WiFi hotspots. So the FCC, at least those
two on the FCC, those are the two most influential chair people. They are very
much in favor of no clamping down on personal use, like a WiFi hotspot. It's essentially where you go when you plug into the hotel's network
and you turn it into a WiFi hotspot that five people
can use in your room or one person can use with five devices, whatever it is.
They're basically saying, “We're all in favor. This should not be restricted at
any point either by the amount of available air wave frequencies or by the
policy of whatever hotel you're staying in.” So this is a really great
direction for the FCC to be going in because it was unestablished. It was
essentially something that was an open question, can
companies who provide internet connectivity as one of the benefits or services
that they provide force you to pay for each device that is on that network?
Now, the answer is no, they cannot, which is great.
Leo: Item four, you don't have to
die needlessly. Thank you, FCC. Oh, wait a minute – because emergency personnel
can't locate you indoors. I didn't even know about this.
Jeff: I didn't either.
Mike: The FCC approved new rules that require carriers to,
within two years, start using technology – so they're essentially giving
benchmarks for the carriers. Within two years, they have to be able to provide
the location of a 911 caller within 50 meters in at least 40% of cases. That
means they're going to be mushed together and they're going to have averages,
and that requires lots of indoor location technology. So they have to allow
this in order to make sure that emergency workers can find people who need
help.
Jeff: Which also means, tell me if I'm wrong, that's where
the WiFi address sniffing stuff comes in handy,
right?
Mike: I'm sure it does and I'm sure that all the
technologies -
Leo: Yes, I wonder how they're going to do that, actually.
Mike: All that has not been hammered out. There's obviously
a million ways to do indoor location but they're basically throwing it at the
carriers and saying, “You have two years to really make indoor location work
for emergency personnel.”
Leo: Within 50 meters in 40% of the cases. Eh, you still
have a 60% chance of dying needlessly but hey, that's better than nothing.
Airplane WiFi, we talked about this with Nick Bilton. You know, Nick was on TWiT on Sunday. You can give Nick a lot of credit for Skymall going bankrupt because he, by rattling the cage and using his bully pulpit in
the New York Times, managed to convince the FAA to allow airlines to leave your
device on during takeoff and landings. That's why Skymall went bankrupt, they said, because nobody read the catalog anymore. They could
just continue to stare at their iPad, their iPhone, their Kindle. So Nick takes
credit for putting Skymall out of business. Now,
Nick's got a new campaign, slow, overpriced WiFi on
airplanes.
He said, “I know, I know, I've heard the Louis CK bit.
We should all be insanely grateful that we're flying seven miles high through
the air at 600 miles an hour. But gee, the WiFi sucks.” But there is a technology.
Mike: That's right. The FCC recently approved a new service
from GoGo called 2KU. That's going to be installed in
a thousand aircraft. Now, most of airplane WiFi,
you're beaming it down to the earth to towers. This beams it up to satellites
and it's much, much faster, up to 70 megabits per second, which is almost
certainly faster than our homes. It's really fast WiFi.
Leo: Jet Blue is rolling this out right now, right?
Mike: Yes. GoGo says that it will
be available to airlines in the second half of this year broadly. So this is
going to be – there are going to be lots of airplanes in the sky where you log
in and it's going to be way faster than your house.
Jeff: You know, I saw a video from, I think, United that
showed the retro-fit for a plane to put in WiFi. I
couldn't believe how hard it was, the amount they had to tear out to put the WiFi in.
Leo: I understand why they charge. I said this to Nick, I
said, “I understand why they charge so much.” The fuel surcharge alone, I mean,
the hundreds of pounds of new equipment they put in must cost them some money
to offer this WiFi.
Mike: But they could use it themselves, as well.
Leo: This is a weird one.
Jeff: I wish I could just use miles for it. I would buy it
more freely with miles.
Leo: You know, I notice the hotels are increasingly
offering free WiFi. I wonder if that'll happen on
planes too. If you were the first – if Jet Blue said, “Look, free internet on
all our flights and it's this new 2KU,” I think that I would absolutely be more
likely to buy a ticket on Jet Blue.
Mike: Plus, look at the money you save on providing content.
You don't have to show movies and all that kind of stuff. Of course, they're
marketing to use -
Jeff: That happened on United. Now on United, and I am
global services on United, I am the highest level. I'm that a-hole that gets on
the plane first, all of you be damned.
Leo: Do you have to sit in a stroller to do it or are you
allowed to walk?
Jeff: I know, I know. Excuse me, are you global services?
Excuse me, excuse me.
Leo: You go on before babies.
Jeff: I get on before the pilot. It's my plane for two
minutes. But I think that WiFi would be a great
benefit for the very frequent flyers. I think it's a benefit that you can use
and the cash they get is limited. You're right, Mike, you now can download the
United App and then, when you get on the plane, if it's equipped with WiFi, that's how you can watch movies.
Leo: I actually enjoy not getting online on an airplane. I
just put on my headphones, listen to music and relax. It's one of the few
places I can get disconnected so I don't really care.
Mike: Those days are numbered.
Leo: I guess so.
Jeff: But now you can use the WiFi to watch a movie without having to download it to your tablet because it's
provided by the airline.
Leo: No, you know, I know it's 70
megabits. But that 70 megabits is shared among all the
passengers on the plane. You're the one, Mister Global Services, that's going
to ruin it for all of us. You'll be Skyping, streaming, watching a movie.
Jeff: There will be no net neutrality for you.
Leo: Number six, the entertainment industry can't use
emergency alerts in movie promotions any more.
Mike: That's right. A movie called Olympus Has Fallen, they had a trailer or commercial for this movie
on Viacom, on ESPN, and the FCC fined Viacom and ESPN $1.4 million because this
movie trailer used the official emergency alert tone. So with the action heroes
and stuff running around on screen, the tone was going and then they said, “You
can't use the tone. You can't use that.”
Leo: I'm a bad person. I turn off Amber Alerts on my phone.
I don't want to know. I don't care.
Jeff: What are the odds that you're going to see -
Leo: You know what happened? Can I tell you what happened
here last month when there was flood warnings? Every
phone in the place went off with a flood warning like, what? Everybody jump and
run because the flood's coming? No. I turn it off. You can't turn off
Presidential alerts, but I figure, if I'm getting a Presidential alert, the end
of the world is imminent.
Mike: The flood warning happened – we were doing TNT and we
were live. It's like, we're pretty dry here. We're kind of on a hill. We're
going to be fine.
Leo: I understand the need for, “Tornado's coming, run for
the cellar,” but I just turn it off. I'm the bad man who's not going to help
find your lost child. I'm sorry. You have to dig to find that emergency – is it
cell broadcasts?
Mike: I actually think the fact that Facebook is putting
Amber alerts selectively on people's News Feeds, I think that's the right place
to do it. You're focused on the content, what's happening in my area?
Leo: I can't – what, am I going to get in the car and look
for a beat up Dodge minibus? I'm not going to – so, show extreme threats, I
have that still – you know, I don't want that either. Severe
threats? No. Amber alerts? No. But you can't turn off the Presidential
alerts, so.
Mike: But definitely let me know when the cupcakes come out
of the oven at the bakery around the corner.
Leo: That, I want to know! “Donuts are ready.”
Jeff: I want a Sharknado alert!
Leo: I'm sorry, I'm such a bad
man. You don't have to jump through hoops to complain any more, item seven.
Mike: Yes, they have a new website. They have the kind of
website that we need.
Leo: That won't break down if they get more than a million
comments.
Mike: The fact is that their new website is okay but their
old website was horrible. It was from the '90s and you just, you know. It was
steam-powered and stuff. It was horrible.
Leo: Steam-powered.
Mike: This is much, much better and you can go to complain
and whine about any company that is providing services that the FCC is involved
with.
Leo: There should be a checkbox, though, for zombie
apocalypse. That, I would like to know about ahead of time. We're going to take a break, come back for more Jeff Jarvis, Mike Elgan, Leo Laporte,
talking Google and the Google-verse and net neutrality. This is the one place,
really – I find when I bookmark news, I bookmark a lot
of stories for this show because this is the catch-all. You can talk about
anything on this show.
Mike: And even if we didn't, Google itself is a massive
generator of news stories.
Leo: It all has to do with Google. Actually, I did want to
mention, and I'll probably mention this on TWiT as
well, but Monte Oum, who worked at Rooster Teeth, he
was an animator. You've seen his work on “Red vs Blue”. He was doing a new
animated web series called “RWBY.” Very tragic. 33
years old, he passed away, fell into a coma, had an allergic reaction during a
medical procedure and never recovered. So, very sad, 33 years old, Monte Oum. You may not know the name but you almost certainly
know his work in “Red vs Blue”. Apparently, Rooster Teeth is going to continue
“RWBY,” continue production of that. So I thought I'd make a mention of that.
You can't turn these alerts off, sorry.
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Jeff: Ooh, coffee kettle popcorn.
Leo: I know! But there's one thing all of these have in
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You can even get more than a box a month, we get like
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naturebox.com/twit for your free sampler. Get it today.
Google earnings – you know, I don't think I buried the
lead. I don't think this was such a big huge deal. We talked about Apple
earnings last week and that was a huge deal, largest profit in history of any
company. But people are saying Google did not have a great quarter. They missed
the analyst estimates.
Mike: Yes. They're doing well. People expect a lot of them.
You know, the layerification of Google when Larry
Page took over, there was a big push. They were kind of in the doldrums and
then there was a big push for aggressive cutting of dead wood, launching new
products and so on. That seems to have fizzled out a little bit. The problem with
Google is that, I think, the investors are worried about them launching all
these different – everything. They're curing cancer; they've got self-driving
cars; they've got blimps and balloons, and all this kind of stuff. Yet, they're
completely dependent upon advertising online and it's such a fickle market,
such a dangerous place to be.
Jeff: Yes, Mike, but I think Youtube and Play are now up to – what is it, $8 billion, $4 billion each a year. Still,
the percentage is shifting. I think the bigger worry is that the price per ad
is going down.
Mike: Price for click, too.
Leo: But not going down as fast as it was, right? It's
slowed a little bit.
Jeff: A little bit, a little bit. It's down 3% versus
Facebook, pardon me for a second here, is up 335%.
Now, that was low but Facebook has momentum. It has the mo on mobile, on price
per ad and that's really the issue that I think is worrying. Google still is an
incredibly large, growing, profitable company. It's just, I think, a little bit
of worry about the low.
Mike: Everybody's eating into their business. They're losing
market share in the United States, slowly, but they're losing it to Yahoo, Bing
and others. Believe it or not, Yahoo is growing and it seems like no matter
what Google does, other companies are aggressively getting into it, even areas
where you thought, “Nobody else would get into that.” I mean, we just had a
story on Tech News Today this morning that it looks like Apple might have
Street View cars and it might even be launching a product called Apple Search.
I think that neither of those things are 100%, they're maybe 50/50 at this
point. But if you go through each of Google's traditional businesses and what
they do, whether it's Search, whether it's Gmail, whether it's any of the
things that they do, there are a lot of powerful companies getting into that
business and potentially chewing away at their market share. They're not going
to replace them as the leader in some of those areas but, you know, just
gnawing away and eroding their dominance.
I think that's one of the things that some are worried
about. Of course, you know, these are good problems to have. We're talking
billions of dollars but again, I think that the investors are right to be
nervous about the heavy reliance on advertising. It's still 80-something
percent plus percentage of their revenue is from advertising. It's like, that
can just dry up and change overnight. I think one of the biggest success
stories and biggest areas of potential is Youtube, of
course, because everybody is trying to get into what Facebook was trying to do
with all the video, what Twitter and others are trying to do with video.
They're all trying to compete with the attention-grabbing power of Youtube, right? Because there's so many hours spent with
eyeballs on that and it's – yes, they're going to continue to be a super
successful company and they could be on the brink of diversifying their sources
of revenue and profit. But so far, I don't think they're diversifying it fast
enough.
Leo: By the way, I don't think that's a Street View car. I
think that's a self-driving car.
Mike: You really think Apple would be in the self-driving
car business?
Leo: I don't know if they would, but I just feel like it
is. Look at the style -
Jeff: You're right, it does.
Leo: The way it stops, I mean, you can't tell. The way it
accelerated the minute that car pulled away, it's keeping exactly the same stop
distance. I think that's a self-driving car. That doesn't look like a Street
View.
Mike: Is it too much to ask for both?
Jeff: I would trust Apple and Google to make a self-driving
car a lot more than I would trust Uber.
Leo: Yes, and Uber's apparently in that business too. I
don't know why Apple would either do Street View or -
Mike: They have Apple Maps and they don't like Google. They
don't like to depend on Google. I really can't see Apple getting into the
transportation.
Leo: If they were doing Street View, you'd see a lot more
of these. We've only seen two in the wild.
Mike: I talked about this with Katie Benner this morning on
Tech News Today. I think that there's a strong possibility that they're dipping
their toe in the waters. They've got billions to throw around, why not just
check it out and see what it's like, see how this might improve Maps. If it
works in San Francisco, maybe they'll throw a billion dollars at it and go
nationwide.
Jeff: But the difference, Mike, I think, is that Google is
in a better position to monetize local because it has the advertising structure
for a huge mass of advertising. Apple is really not there. You know, let me
just say this.
Leo: Google has $64 billion in cash, good position for an
acquisition. Their tax rate, significantly lower than Apple's, the effective
tax rate was 16%. Apple was somewhere around 26 or 27%, I think.
Mike: Yes, but all those Irish sandwiches and all that
stuff, that's all going good.
Leo: Google's doing good with
that.
Mike: Yes, yes.
Leo: But it's going to go away. Had we talked on TWiT about – no, yesterday on Mac Break Weekly about the
fact that there are two motions afoot to tax these overseas earnings. President Obama has suggested a 14% tax and then Nancy Pelosi has suggested,
along with Rand Paul, of all people, a lower – I can't remember what it was, 4%
tax? But a one-time only tax that would allow repatriation at
no cost to them.
Jeff: Which is not going to make the Europeans happy at all
because what they'll do is they'll just declare all the revenue to be American
revenue – [crosstalk]
Leo: We had an actual foreigner on the show, Renee Richie
from Canada. He said, “You know, this sets a bad precedent for a country taxing
income from another country.” So I think that, probably, this is a non-starter.
Jeff: This is going to be a fight.
Leo: Yes, anyway -
Jeff: Let me just say this about Google and full disclosure,
I own Google stock and I ain't selling it. It's going
to do amazingly for a long time to come, I still believe.
Mike: I think you're right.
Leo: Would you buy Facebook stock?
Jeff: Yes, well, I wish I bought it long ago. Yes, I think –
the thing is about Facebook is, as a user, I'm not as engaged as I wish I were
to fully understand where Facebook is and is going. Do you know what I mean?
That's my issue there. I'm more engaged in Google+, Mike and I are the two
wackos in the world who are. With Facebook, I delve in all the time. I just am
not as into it as I think I should be to understand where their business is
going.
Mike: But, you know, facebook.com is not where their
business is going. Their business is going in a million different apps and
they're really aggressive. They're being successful and I would definitely buy
Facebook stock. I think that their monopoly on everybody is growing to the
point of no return. Nobody cares how bad Facebook is, that's where everybody
is. So you've got to be there and it's just -
Jeff: What about the argument we hear though, Mike, all the
time - “Oh, but my kids aren't on Facebook.” They're on What's App and they're on Instagram. Is that the answer?
Mike: They're also not using email but they will. They'll
come around.
Leo: They are using Snapchat, I
know it for a fact because Nick Bilton told me so. If
you haven't seen Nick Bilton's Snapchat instruction
to me on TWiT on Sunday, you've really got to watch.
Mike: But you know, you really know what the kids –
[crosstalk]
Leo: I'm a believer. The kids use Snapchat.
Mike: You'll know the kids are using Snapchat when Facebook
buys Snapchat.
Leo: Didn't Facebook try to buy Snapchat?
Mike: They did, but you know, maybe they'll throw $20
billion at it or something like that. What I'm saying is that Facebook is –
whenever they see a category that is threatening their – where people are
going, they'll go and snap it up before people can go there, essentially.
Leo: Yes, yes. See, the kids aren't as dumb as they look
and they're also very fickle. So they're both smart and fickle. I talked to my
son Henry, he's 20. You have two young sons, so you kind of know too. But I had
Henry over Christmas break and about six of his friends, all the same, all
college students. I said, “Do you use Facebook?” “No, that's what our parents
use.” “Do you use Twitter?” “We use it to message each other for fun, it's a
hoot.” They don't use it the same way we do.
“Do you use What's App?” “No.”
One guy used it with his French girlfriend, that's it. “What do you use?” “Snapchat, all the time. A little bit of Instagram but
mostly Snapchat all the time.”
Mike: But Snapchat is the social network for fickle people,
as you said. Once they have kids and the kids, you know – Facebook -
Leo: Maybe they'll come to Facebook.
Mike: Facebook is the inevitable. That's where the
gravitational center of the black hole is. It's like, if people get sucked into
it one way or the other, eventually, most people do. Not everybody. So yes,
when you're like Henry, you're in college, you have a bunch of young friends, probably
half of his friends he met within the last two years.
Leo: There are no baby pictures, you're right.
Mike: That's a place you can come and go. Next year, it'll
be something else. There will be another platform that they will have left
Snapchat for.
Leo: That's what I mean. They're fickle, so you can't
really predict.
Jeff: Wow. Do me a favor and just go to snapchat.com right
now.
Leo: I don't think there is a web interface.
Jeff: There is. And what's striking
about it is the big media brands that are there.
Leo: Oh, yes, this just happened.
Jeff: This is phenomenal.
Leo: Have you seen Katie Couric and what she's doing on
Snapchat?
Jeff: A little bit, yes.
Leo: I think it's very intriguing. Let me show you.
Jeff: It's interesting.
Leo: She's doing news on Snapchat. So they just added on
Snapchat, a – I've been logged out? Oh, I got to log back in again.
So what she does is, you know, you only get ten seconds
per Snap and they die, by the way, after 24 hours even if nobody looks at them.
She's doing one story, very nicely produced – in fact, there must be a tool, like a desktop tool for these brands. Because
there are people doing content on Snapchat, that's what you're seeing here. Okay, so let me go back into Snapchat.
Mike: You've even got Youtube stars.
Leo: Here's Snapchat. You press the Discover button. These
are all the different brands, CNN, Comedy Central, Cosmopolitan, but here's
Yahoo. Watch – I don't know if you'll be able to hear this but watch what Katie
Couric is doing, it's really – well, I guess what Yahoo is doing. We should
probably say it that way.
[Snapchat plays]
That's a news story. It's going to repeat but if I
want, I swipe to the next one. So that'll repeat and I swipe again, another
story. I don't know what value there is, I don't know if they can monetize
this. It's obviously, I think -
Jeff: It's currently branding. I mean, Katie -
Leo: I asked Nick on this because Nick just wrote a New
York Times piece signing Snapchat's praises. I said, “Are these brands wasting
their money?” He said, “Absolutely.” This is great for Snapchat but I got to
tell you -
Jeff: Not for Katie Couric. Here's why, because I think that
Marissa Mayer hiring her expected it would draw audience to it, but people have
to know she's there. Once she's there and interesting, I think that's branding
that's important.
Leo: Do you really think that anybody uses Snapchat and
goes, “Oh,there's Katie
Couric! She's on Yahoo News now.”
Jeff: Let me do another full disclosure is that Katie is, in
fact and indeed, a truly nice person and I imposed like crazy on her to speak
to my daughter's school about women in media and she agreed to do it. So I love
Katie right now.
Leo: I do too.
Jeff: Katie's a hero. Katie is absolutely as sweet as can
be, she's as nice as she seems.
Leo: Did she ever find out what internet was, though?
Jeff: That was the greatest. But that's part of her, that she's willing to make fun of herself and I think
she's trying very hard to be innovative. So I think there's an audience of
really young people who didn't watch Katie Couric on the Today Show, didn't
watch her on CBS so she's somebody new to Yahoo News. Who knows? I think it's
worth the shot.
Leo: I was telling Mike, I think we should do TNT this way.
Mike: Yes, exactly.
Leo: We should take the top five stories on TNT and make
little Snapchats out of them.
Mike: Yes. It'll take us five minutes. So that part of it is
interesting, the big brand, the big names, all that kind of stuff. ESPN,
People, Vice and so on, that's the part that's going to fail, I think, on
Snapchat. There's another thing I think is really interesting is that-
Leo: I could see my son watching this because this is just highlight clips and t his is about
his attention span, six seconds.
[Snapchat playing]
Actually, this seems to me – the ESPN thing makes sense
to me.
Mike: It does make sense. I'm not sure – the big problem is
that people approach Snapchat with a mindset about what they want to do with
it. It's a communications medium so they have an uphill battle convincing
people to embrace that as a passive content reception medium. But Snapchat is
also launching something called Snapper Hero, which are Youtube celebrities like Shonduras McBride, and Freddy Wong
and others. What's interesting about that is that these episodes will run for
about two minutes. What they're doing is they're trying to – when you see these Youtube celebrities, they're almost like one of your
friends showing you a goofy video. So they're trying to train users to use
video a lot more because video is the most powerful medium, it's the most
eye-grabbing medium, eyeball-catching and attention-grabbing medium there is.
So everybody is trying to get people to use video and they're using these Youtube stars to get people to sort of train them to this
behavior of sharing videos.
Leo: Wow, this is just wild.
Mike: Which is different from Katie
Couric. People are not going to launch news programs when they see Katie
Couric.
Jeff: What was Nick's argument about the wonder of Snapchat
and why Snapchat – I'll watch it, I haven't seen it.
Leo: He's using Snapchat Stories, which I find interesting.
It is really, kind of, the individual's way of doing this, which is doing short
little stories all linked together. So I could actually do one if I could
figure it out. The other thing that's weird about Snapchat is the user
interface is bizarre. I don't know how to get out of anything. All right, here
we go.
So I can record something. We'll do something real
quickly here, flip the camera around. It's another Snapchat Story from TWiT. Then I could add text or whatever and add it to this.
Now it's part of a Story, which anybody can watch. You can have lots of pieces
in your Story, very much like the Katie Couric thing or the ESPN thing. People can
subscribe to you. It's not, you know, messages from friends. So Baratunde is doing that. Actually, I wish I could show you Bilton's yesterday, but it's gone. That's the other thing
that's weird is that it goes away, right? So this is Snap-atunde.
He's using a lot of text. I don't know, there's just
something interesting about this. Nick really feels like this is a
communications medium for a new generation and it's the kids.
Of course, as you know, from being in media, Jeff, for
years, everybody wants the kids. How can we get the kids? What are the kids
doing?
Mike: Why would anybody want the kids?
Leo: I don't know. Screw the kids. That's why I turned off
Amber alerts. We're going to take a break – I've decided my new persona is
going to be grumpy. We're going to take a break and come back with more. We've
got a good panel, I'll tell you. It's always great with Jeff Jarvis, Mike Elgan, talking the Google. Talking 'bout
stuff. But first, let's talk a little bit about legalzoom.com.
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Project Tango. What is Project Tango?
Jeff: The phone thing, isn't it?
Leo: Is this the Era?
Jason: 3D mapping.
Leo: Oh, it's 3D mapping.
Mike: It's a physical hardware prototype device that has
powerful, powerful chips in it that essentially can in an instant, very
quickly, 3D map indoor spaces which can be used for a million things, for
gaming, for – [crosstalk]
Leo: For E911.
Mike: Yes, exactly.
Leo: So spitting it out means it's still part of Google but
it's no longer going to be in the Advanced Technology Group. It's going to be
kind of a little bit more real, I guess.
Mike: Yes. When this happened to Google Glass, everybody
said that Google Glass was dead. When they said, “It's a real product now,” we
said, “See, it's dead.” No, it's a real product now.
Leo: They're going to sell this?
Mike: Yes, absolutely. Well, this is a device that is
something of a reference platform. So they're going to basically want others -
Leo: Can you put it on a smart phone? It looks like it's a
running app.
Mike: It is. It's a modified phone that has graphics chips
in it that, until a year ago or two years ago, only existed in very powerful
computers. So it's high-end, kind of expensive, but you can imagine
unbelievable – like, when Microsoft rolled out the HoloLens,
everybody said, “Wow, this is the future. This is amazing.” Yes, that is the
future. That experience is going to be a massive platform, just like you said,
Leo, on several shows. This is a whole new platform. But I'm not so sure that
Microsoft is going to own it. This is going to be enabling that sort of device.
You'll plug a headset into this thing and walk around with this thing.
Jeff: I just think that the opportunity for sight-impaired
people is unbelievable.
Leo: So you can use this not only to map, but once mapped,
you can navigate around and walk around in here.
Jeff: Yes. “Take me to the bathroom,” you know? Just, right
there, the power of that and then put in things like internet and things.
Leo: So it would give you – it would say, “Okay, walk three
steps and turn left,” that kind of thing?
Mike: No, no. It will not only know where the hall is, where
the door is, it'll know that there's a toy truck right in front of you, don't
step on that. Walk around the dog, the dog is walking away. I mean, it's real time -
Leo: So it's seeing as well as something that's already
recorded. Wow.
Mike: Oh, yes. It's constantly mapping, recording and seeing
all at the same time. It's not instant, instant but it's relatively high fidelity
and it's in a mobile phone.
Leo: Do you think this will be involved with the Leap
Motion technologies that Google is also invested in or is that a separate kind
of thing?
Mike: I'm pretty sure that's a separate kind of thing.
Leo: Because this is all the stuff that the investors said,
“Get out of this stuff and stick to your knitting.”
Mike: They were wrong about that.
Leo: “You're spending money on this? What are you, nuts?”
Mike: I actually have a feeling that the Leap Motion is a
little bit ahead of Microsoft's HoloLens and I don't
think this is related to Leap Motion. This is all about making a sort of indoor
mapping, highly mobile and I don't think your Galaxy S7 is going to have this
technology in it. I don't think this is going to be a consumer product.
Leo: Yes. Looks like it's a dedicated thing, right?
Mike: Yes. It'll be a higher-end device but -
Leo: Maybe it will be on something like a Galaxy S7.
They've got to find ways to put stuff into and distinguish the next generation
of phones. We've already hit the wall on what new stuff you can do. So there's
still Project Era. But Project Tango exits the Advanced Technologies and
Projects group to become, perhaps, a real product.
Jeff: What's interesting, too, is now imagine Street View
brought inside, fully mapping the inside world.
Leo: Right.
Jeff: A mall, then you start to map
to merchandise, advertising opportunities.
Leo: As long as we're talking Blue Sky, this is another
project out of Google's X projects. Google is making human skin.
Mike: Yes. So that they can cure cancer. They're having a type of -
Jeff: Detect cancer.
Mike: Yes, detect cancer, sorry.
Leo: Wait a minute. So they've been making synthetic human
skin to create a wristband that can detect cancer, heart attacks or other
diseases? This is a little creepy. This video from the Atlantic shows two
disembodied arms …
Jeff: It's the beginning of Google making human beings,
that's what it's about. Let's be honest, now.
Leo: Wow. They use nanoparticles – wait a minute. They use nano – wait a minute. Wait a minute. These synthetic skin
strips are using nanoparticles to search in my body for disease?
Mike: No, the skin strips -
Leo: That's what it says here.
Mike: The skin strips are being used to test this technology
that uses nanoparticles to detect cancer.
Leo: Oh, they don't have the nanoparticles yet but they
want to be ready with the skin strips.
Mike: They want – so, the condensed version is that they're
working on technology that will enable a bracelet to detect cancer using
magnetic nanoparticles. But -
Leo: But you would swallow the pill containing the
nanoparticles?
Mike: Right. So the arm and the skin – they have the same
light, kind of, absorbing properties as human skin and other qualities of human
skin so they can test it without doing something weird to some real human's
wrists. So the artificial skin and artificial arm part of it is a test dummy
for their technology that would detect cancer with a bracelet. It's a search
engine company, of course they're doing this.
Leo: Of course they're doing it.
Jeff: Google is going to replace you, not with a robot but
with an artificial human. That's it, let's just be honest. That's what we
feared and it's happening.
Leo: I'm kind of thrilled that – this is Larry or is it
Sergei?
Mike: Sergei.
Jeff: Sergei.
Leo: I'm kind of thrilled that Sergei has decided, “I've
got more money than God. What should I do with it? I'm going to support Blue
Sky stuff and better yet, instead of just leaving Google and having a secret
lab in a mountain volcano somewhere, I'm going to do it inside Google.”
Jeff: I think it's more than that, Leo. I think it's Bell Labs. I think it's the role that AT&T had once
in this country where we're going to do things about space and we're going to
net the transistor -
Leo: Was Bell Labs stuff as goofy as this?
Jeff: There was not quite as goofy, but there was pure
research. There was absolutely pure research.
Leo: Unix came out of it, Seed
came out of it. Much of what we use in modern computing came out of Bell Labs.
As you said, the transistor.
Mike: But I think what Bell Labs did was all about computing
and electricity, that sort of thing. What this is all about is, I think that
Sergei in particular and Google in general tend to see Google as the experts in
using massive data sets in creative things to solve problems in a way that used
to require a lot more money, a lot more people and a lot more time. So I think
that they see this as identical to the search engine business because you're basically
doing lots of data crunching and figuring all these things. Remember, Sergei’s
wife, they're still married, runs 23andMe. I'm sure that they have had many
conversations about how you could use big data number crunching to figure out
all kinds of correlations about health. “Oh, people who are left-handed and
also live in Utah never get cancer.” Whatever these unexpected – they're right
about that. He's right about that. You can make so much – you can do so much
good in the world.
Leo: And, by the way, there's probably profit in all of
this too. I think one of the things Google does recognize – we've talked about
this before, that the Search thing isn't going to last forever and you've got
to have the next thing. I'm sure that's what Bell Labs was up to. So here's an
interesting thing. You can be your own technical director. Jason Howell has
always dreamt, someday, of being able to watch video and switch the angles.
This is a Youtube performer named Madeline Bailey.
She's the first to have switchable angles. So right now, we're on this angle
but let's say you'd like to see a side view. Wow, now, this is the same video.
[video plays]
Now he's talking, so let's go look at him. Wonder what
she's thinking while Arnold is talking or let's get all of the – it's too bad
this is wasted on such horrible programming.
Jeff: Imagine, Leo – [crosstalk]
Mike: He's bringing the fannypack back, there.
Jeff: - and it's just three cameras, imagine the 30 cameras
you have.
Leo: I would love to do this. What do we have to do to get
into this project? We actually have content.
Mike: We almost already have this with DropCams.
Leo: We can. We have six DropCams you can just switch from but not as – I like how fast this is. This is like –
you know, I always thought this would be kind of interesting. We actually have
dreamt of doing this for a long time at TWiT, since
almost day one and we're ten years old. But I realized I had to have a separate
stream for each camera and I was thinking of a user interface where you could
do that, cut back and forth.
Jeff: Then you've got to have a website.
Leo: Yes, we can't afford a website.
Jason: You had to bring that up.
Jeff: Sorry.
Leo: Switchable angles, says ComputerVision or CompuVision in our chatroom, was a part of the DVD
standard 230 years ago. Just, nobody did it. I remember that, dimly.
Jeff: Even before DVD, what was the big disk?
Leo: Laser disk.
Jeff: Yes, laser disk.
Leo: Blu-ray also has angles. I mean, I don't know. I feel
like -
Jason: Don't most people just want to watch though?
Leo: I feel like this is your job, Jason.
Mike: What ever happened to the lean back experience?
Jason: Yes, it's my job. I do it as a job. When I'm at home,
about to put on a concert, I suppose it's neat to be able to do something like
this but am I really going to sit on my couch or at my computer to watch an
hour-long video and switch cameras?
Mike: You don't want to replace your remote control with a Tricaster, Jason?
Jeff: Imagine how you could create programming that could be
made for this.
Leo: Well, I think porn could benefit from this.
Jeff: Oh, yes.
Leo: This is interesting. There it is, there you've seen
it. It's an experiment. Madeline Bailey is doing it on her Youtube channel. Youtube Music Night performance there and
that's how you switch around. It's cool. I mean, it's not a hard thing to do. I
think Alex Lindsey did something like this as well. What is Smart Lock?
Should we do this story? What is Smart Lock?
Jeff: Oh, this is driving me nutty. Smart Lock is so that
you don't have to unlock your computer if your phone is nearby, if you have
Android 5 and if you have Chrome.
Leo: Oh, I like it.
Jeff: So you would think, you would think that I, of all
people, would be able to do that.
Leo: Yes, Mister Pixel.
Jeff: No, no, no, because guess what? Google Apps accounts
getting screwed again and you have to march through all kinds of hoops, light
them on fire and I still haven't been able to make them work. I, Google fanboy, have not been able to make this freaking work.
While I'm at this, something else has changed so that now, even though I'm
signed into my Apps account, every window is my Apps account, all Apps account,
when I open a new Google app, it defaults to my
Google+ Gmail account. So I try to open something in Docs, it opens it up in
the wrong damned account because Google can't [gibberish] figure this out.
Mike: Yes, but that's – in other words, this is actually a
really cool feature that gets screwed up when you have multiple accounts
because, as you said, Google can't figure that out.
Jeff: It gets totally screwed up and I still have not been
able to get this going. There's complicated – you have to go in, into the Apps
admin account. There's a Chrome thing which is hidden in other apps. You have
to go in there and find the place where you say, “Okay, you can use this neat
new feature.” Then you need to restart, find it – I still can't find it.
Mike: I don't understand how this is super different from
the feature – I think they first introduced it in the Moto X with the Bluetooth
thing and you even had a little magnetic -
Leo: Skip, yes.
Mike: But you could also do it with your phone or whatever?
Leo: They do that now, in fact, on the current Moto X if
it's a trusted Bluetooth network, it just unlocks it.
Mike: And, of course, this concept is going to be huge in
the internet of things and home automation. This will unlock everything, turn
on lights, it'll be like Bill Gates' house.
Jeff: I think you're going to wear your electronic identity.
Mike: Yes, and it should be your smart phone.
Jeff: No. I don't think it's your smart phone. I think your
smart phone is just another accessory.
Leo: Did you ever get into Bill Gates' house? I always
tried to but the guards catch me each time.
Mike: The security, yes.
Leo: I remember when he built it and this was ten or 15
years ago, the idea was that you would walk into a room and he would already
know what paintings and pictures you liked.
Mike: You'd be issued a pin of some kind, a device that you
clip on.
Leo: It would sense you and the paintings would change on
the TV screens in the room to match your needs.
Jeff: I'm afraid I would walk in and it would be some Thomas Kinkade horrible crap, they think I have no taste.
Leo: I think that's kind of – I wonder if he put it in 15
years ago, if it's kind of dusty and faded. It doesn't work anymore.
Mike: It'll be like Tomorrow Land at Disneyland.
Leo: “Welcome, welcome, welcome.” I feel like – what do you
think? I would like to get into Bill Gates' house now and see how much of that
crap they've just turned off, like, “Yes, that was not a good idea.”
Mike: I'm sure that's true.
Leo: It's not so much the guards, it's the wall and the dogs. But I'm working on it. I shouldn't say that because
then they're going to come, the Microsoft police.
Jeff: No, it's Apple that has the police.
Leo: I think Microsoft probably has police, too.
Mike: Get with the program. Use a drone like everybody else.
Leo: One of Bill's books had a virtual tour of his house,
says Fred Flintstone, who has a mighty nice house himself, I might add. He had
to do everything with his furry feet.
Google's secret weapon in the battle
of the internet of things, speaking of IOT academia, according to this article
in Fast Company. Tina Amirtha. Google is not adverse to
using university brain power for a lot of what it's doing. Maggie Johnson,
Google Research's Director of Education and University Relations.
Mike: They have a grant program called “Open Web of Things
to Attract Talent to the Company.” You know, they've already hired a huge
number of academics. It's almost borderline brain drain situation.
Leo: They've always had more PhDs than any company in
America, right?
Mike: Yes.
Jeff: You know, there's an interesting precedent set to
judge today – I'm forgetting his name, former Guardian Journalist who does
visualization at Twitter is now also, in addition to that, a contributing
editor at Vox. He's going to keep his Twitter job but
also do Vox. Which, is interesting
because I wonder what other media companies will think about that. “You're working for Vox. Are you going to give us the
nice stuff or not?”
Leo: Really. Google's giving – we mentioned that Intel is
spending, how much was it? $300 million.
Mike: Yes.
Leo: To encourage diversity in technology. Google, not to
be left behind, has said, “We'll give $775 thousand.”
Jeff: Million. Is it thousand?
Leo: Yes, a thousand.
Mike: They're giving it in grants to code 2040.
Leo: Google, Intel gave $300 million.
Mike: That, I believe, was for gender diversity. This was
for diversity to get more minorities into technology.
Leo: I think Intel's does it all but, yes.
Mike: Do they? Okay.
Leo: That's my memory.
Mike: Code 2040 has free training programs for Black and
Latino college engineering students and I think this is the kind of thing,
although it's surprising how little it is in terms of Google bucks, but they
would love to hire more women and minorities. It's a systemic, deep, cultural
problem that is more than just hiring people who – you know. So this is a
little part of it, boosting engineering students at the college level is one
tiny way to do it. It's barely going to touch the issue, as far as I'm
concerned.
Jeff: Same in our industry, Mike. You know, CUNY prides
itself on being diverse and we are highly diverse but we can never do it
enough.
Mike: The problem with journalism – journalism has a special
problem in that the education that you need in order to be a journalist – you
can make a lot more money not being a journalist.
Jeff: Amen. That's exactly the problem.
Mike: So if you're from a family, if your parents immigrated
from another country or something like that and you're the one person to ever go to an American University. You go through it all, you
have all this education, everybody's going to be disappointed if you take that
vow of poverty and become a journalist. They're going to want you to go to Wall
Street or go into something you're going to make a lot more money. So that's a
big, big problem, not so much in technology but that still exists as well
because people think that everybody in Silicon Valley makes a ton of money.
They don't, really. Good engineers make pretty good money, but when you have to
live in Silicon Valley and pay the costs of living, it ends up being, you know,
barely upper-middle class. So it's kind of a big problem and at least they're
doing something, I guess, that's something that can be said.
Jeff: It's also an argument to say, “Let's break up this
Silicon Valley technology ghetto and do development all around the country,”
which is happening.
Mike: Yes. It is and it isn't. There's a lot of that stuff
going on but there's still no substitute for that intense kind of incubator in
the air kind of feel in Silicon Valley. There's a lot to be said for that.
There was a study recently that looked at the degree to which that sort of
synergistic quality/culture of Silicon Valley actually had material benefits
for the success of companies and stuff like that. It is good to see it being
diversified, and every week, there's another article, like, “This is the next
Silicon Valley,” and it's Des Moines, Iowa.
Jeff: Speaking of New York, we're going to do TWiT stuff here soon, I hope. We do not have a robust
technology and investment scene in New York and it does feed on itself. There's
a point of critical mass but I think we have it now in New York.
Mike: I think what's really happening that's kind of skewing
the picture is that a lot of what we talk about in terms of technology is
writing an app, right? Writing an app – you can write an app if you specialize
in something highly special. You can do that literally anywhere and you can get
rich. A tiny minority will get rich doing it. A lot of the technology, though,
that isn't writing an app, sort of deep enterprise software or real hardware
that has to integrate with other things or get into the biotech that's
happening, a lot of the food technology that's happening in Silicon Valley,
that stuff is harder to do when you're – I mean, New York is Silicon Alley, of
course, a hotbed of technology. Massachusetts, a lot of areas like that but if
you talk about outside the major cities, that's something you really need to go
to a place like Silicon Valley, New York City, London or someplace like that
where you can find lots of support and infrastructure, and you can hire people.
You know, a lot of it is where the universities that
specialize in certain things. So if you look in New York, one of the things
that New York is just amazing at in terms of the population there is the number
of people who are in science, especially, oddly enough, science journalism. All
the science journalists are in New York and half of those are in Brooklyn.
Leo: They all work for the New Yorker.
Mike: Yes, yes. It's like they're very hard to find in
Silicon Valley.
Leo: That's interesting.
Mike: It really is kind of odd. But again, where are the
universities? You're going to find clusters of certain types of people in
Massachusetts, near Harvard, etc., and MIT and so on. So you – let's face it.
Silicon Valley exists because of Stanford.
Leo: Right. What did you think of this editorial from the
New York Times yesterday against the right to be forgotten?
Mike: I think it's exactly what we've all been saying for
several months. It's nice to see them sort of saying it now, finally. That's
the basic argument. Once there's a precedent set where governments can say,
“You can't say this on the search engines,” everybody is going to want a piece
of that. So China, and Turkey, and Iran and everybody's going to want to say, “Well, here's our version of the right to be forgotten.
We want people to forget the Armenian genocide.”
Leo: The Times editorial board wrote, “This position is
deeply troubling because it could lead to censorship by public officials who
want to whitewash the past. It also sets a terrible example for officials in
other countries who might want to demand that internet companies remove links
they don't like. There is no doubt the internet has made it harder for
governments to enforce certain rules and laws because information is not easily
contained within borders. That does not justify restricting the information
available to citizens of other countries.”
Jeff: It's a free speech issue. But you know, back from
Davos, the media counsel of which I'm a member had an important discussion
about freedom of speech, starting with peril to journalists. This was right
after Charlie Hebdo. It's sobering, when you get into
a truly international audience, how few people around the world hold to the
free speech absolutist view that we Americans have. I think that's where the
right to be forgotten comes from, even in a very progressive land of Europe,
this idea that there's a balancing of speech. I don't buy that, myself. I think
it's very important to say that there's a right to remember. It's very
important to say, “You can't control knowledge. You can't rewrite history.” I
think at times, a little overdoing it but I'm really glad they wrote the
editorial. Now, at the same time, Google had a, frankly, hand-picked group of
people studying this and without any particular surprise, they said that the
right to be forgotten should stick to Europe and should not be worldwide at the
same time the EU is going to try to impose their will on the whole world. I say
to them, “To hell with you. You're not going to affect my speech here, no.”
Mike: I have a theory about that, Jeff. You talked about the
idea that Americans tend to be more passionate or more absolutist about free
speech than elsewhere, including Europe. My theory is that's not entirely the
case. I think what's different is that I think American's take the internet
more seriously as a bonafide source of content and
information than other places. I get the feeling that in Europe, they would
never, ever try to impose the same kinds of restrictions in novels, in academic
studies, in other types of content, other media. But the internet, “Oh, that's
just a confection. That's just this superficial thing that's annoying. It's not
real.”
Jeff: I think that's exactly right and I think it's not just
the internet. It goes back to when I was a TV critic, I would try to defend
television and people would restrict television in a way they'd never consider
doing to books. Even I objected and got into a tiff with Ed Markey on a TV show
many, many years ago about the V chip that's in cable boxes by government
regulation. It never came to pass but the worst fear was, if you were the
so-called [1:22:34] to the television counsel, the Howard Stern enemies, you'll
just get every show that you don't possibly like with a Scarlet Letter with a V
on it so it can be blocked across the market. Technology would be a handmaiden
to censorship. So you're right. I think that we hold books to be holy and every
other medium, pretty much every other medium, if you consider the kind of
censorship that's occurred in movies over the years, and television and the
internet is seen as less. But it's all speech, or as the [1:23:04] Manifesto
would say, “It's all conversation.”
Mike: Right, and there's – we see this type of attitude all
over the place. For instance, there's a video game called Hotline Miami 2,
which was banned in Australia because there's a rape scene in it. So there's a lot of people talking about this, the chattering
classes are talking about this and saying, “Oh, well it's good because -” But
apply that to novels. Should we say that it's illegal to have depictions of
rape in novels? What about books? What about scientific studies about rape?
Should those be banned? Where – what is it about video games? This, by the way,
is a satire of a criticism of violent video games like Grand Theft Auto. That's
what the game is, it's using the video game format to
sort of expose to ridiculous extremes what these games are like. To ban them on
that basically says, “Okay, this is not a legitimate art form,” like painting.
You would never put such restrictions on painters, photographers or any of the
older existing communications media. This is just an ongoing issue that we're
going to have to grapple with.
Eventually, I think the – by the way, it has to be
said. I'd mentioned that Europeans tend to not take the internet as seriously.
I don't think that's the case among most European populations. That's not the
people. That's the bureaucrats who are an entirely different -
Leo: This is comedically bloody,
this game. We probably shouldn't show it. I don't want to get banned in
Australia or anything.
Mike: It looks almost 8-bit.
Leo: It is 8-bit, top down. It's obviously tongue in cheek
but I think you made an excellent point. I think that comes from an out-of-date
notion that video games are for kids. That's obviously out of date.
So speaking of kids, Google has bought Toontastic, a storyteller app created by Launchpad games.
In Asset Today, they didn't say how much but they have made Toontastic free. I'm not familiar with it but it's for the iPad. It's a modern-day puppet
show. You can record them and share them with others. Google is working, I
guess, on I don't know what. Maybe this is for the new children's Youtube. I don't know what this is for. Actually, this
might be an interesting thing. It had been rumored they were working on a Youtube for kids, maybe let kids make their own videos in
this kind of context.
It's not the only acquisition. Microsoft, according to
Tech Crunch Today, bought Sunrise, a calendar app we've used and recommended. I
really love, on iOS and Android. Earlier, they bought – you may remember, they
bought Acompli. They've turned that into Outlook for
iOS. It sounds like Microsoft is acquiring other mobile developers.
Mike: It's so weird to see Microsoft becoming a company that
doesn't have a problem about other mobile platforms.
Leo: I love it. I think this is a new Microsoft and I
welcome it. Rolling Stone has teamed up with Google Play to monetize their
archives. So Google Play has a magazine stand, which I had forgotten because I
never use it. But they're going to take, I guess, archival articles, issues –
it says three to four stories from each archive issue for free on Google Play.
Then, I guess all of – it would be kind of fun to get old Rolling Stones.
Jeff: I use Google Play News all the time.
Leo: I use the News, which is a really great little app
that replaced Current, right?
Jeff: Yes, and I think it's actually very good. That's the
thing, I don't subscribe. I was just thinking, I used
to buy magazines by the pound. I love magazines. I started a magazine. And the
magazine stand I used to buy the most from in Jersey City was near my old
office. I just saw they tore it down and it's gone. You can't find newsstands
anywhere. I don't buy magazines any more. I walk by newsstands now and think, I don't even go into them any more.
So I don't have the reflex to buy them on an app.
Leo: I'm the same way. It's all about deep links and going
article by article, not even site by site but article by article, which it
really kind of is a problem, I think, for the long-term health of article
aggregators. We used to call them magazines.
Mike: I remember that.
Leo: You know what I just did that we had so much fun on
our vacation? Reading the New York Times newspaper every
morning.
Mike: I read it every day.
Leo: I subscribe to the daily delivery of New York Times.
Mike: It's a joy.
Leo: I really like it.
Mike: I got today's -
Leo: Isn't it great? Then I get – this is what I used to do
when I was a radio talk show host, I would cut and take a razor blade to cut
out articles, put them in a folder and bring them to work.
Mike: Yes, a morgue file.
Leo: Now I keep clicking on the article trying to share it
and nothing happens.
Mike: See, I keep telling people this and they don't believe
me. I look at a screen 12 hours a day and it's the most digital, most
technology-obsessed people who need print reading material like the New York
Times.
Leo: Also, it is a better interface. You can scan more
articles faster. It seems like there are more articles in the printed edition.
I mean, I've been reading the New York Times and the Wall Street Journal online
for years. It seems like there's more stuff there.
Mike: The benefits in the print, online and digital versions
of articles, they always pitch as a benefit the idea that you can find what you
want, which means that you don't find what you don't think you want.
Leo: There's more serendipity, I agree.
Mike: So the New York Times, on print, forces you to go –
you know, I can talk intelligently about all kinds of issues and conflicts
around the world that are happening, that no one else has even heard of because
they're never forced to – [crosstalk]
Leo: Especially international, you're exactly right.
Mike: That's right. We know all about the plane crashes in
Taiwan. We know all about the big splashy stuff that has crazy video. We don't
know about the little conflicts that are really shaping the world and it's a
real problem.
Leo: Jeff, we're trying to support this whole journalism
thing you're into.
Jeff: See, but I think you're holding up – you're extending
the past needlessly. The New York Times – we subscribe to the New York Times.
The reason we do is because it's cheaper than subscribing to the New York Times
digital only because print subscribers are worth more so they aren't officially
pumping up the print. The New York Times has now hit, they say they're going to
hit one million digital subscriber this year, which is
very impressive, I must say. It would be much higher if they didn't have that
artificial support for print.
Mike: But it has to be said that I think the real solution
that is needed here is not that everybody start reading a black and white
newspaper again and getting a home delivery and all that stuff. The solution is
that we need to figure out a way to make digital devices do what the New York
Times does, which is expose to you, sort of serendipitously, all kinds of
things that you are not thinking of at the moment and aren't necessarily
related to the kinds of things that you're normally interested in. I mean, one
of the crazy things about the New York Times, and I've been subscribing since I
was in college, is that you flip through it and you're seeing stuff that you
would never even think of, like what's happening in stage performances in
London. You know, every once in a while there are articles like that that are
incredibly interesting and very enlightening, and relevant to other things that
you're thinking about, doing and so on that you would never in a million years
see if you were using Google's Play News.
Jeff: So you're arguing for serendipity, and editors like to
think that they are the sole proprietors of serendipity. But I'm going to go to
your favorite service. I was on the plane coming back from Davos and I opened
up Google+ on the plane with no WiFi. But I just
looked at the page that was already loaded there and I opened seven new tabs of
interesting things that I saw that when I landed, I wanted to look at. Twitter,
you get serendipity from that. I think it's interesting that the Play
Newsstand, versus Google News – Google News is an overload and it's everything.
I don't think they've thought through what Google News can be. And then Play is
so brand-oriented. There's something in the middle that will do a better job of
giving you serendipity across brands. But I get it a lot from Twitter.
Leo: People have tried that.
Jeff: I mean, Flipboard, but that's not really.
Leo: I mean, even Google News, right? Isn't Google News all
about cross-brand serendipity?
Jeff: It's trying to be kind of everything. The irony to me
is, Google News doesn't personalize much.
Leo: You're overlooking something very important. The New
York Times print edition is very soft and absorbent, as well.
Mike: Yes it is. You can use it to clean windows. Try that
with Google Play.
Jeff: Try that with my tablet. Oh, by the way, Google News flash here. The wait is over. My Nexus 7.
Leo: Ah, 5.02 as well.
Jason: It's a miracle.
Leo: Now, wait a minute. Is that a Verizon? Is that an
LTE-1, or?
Jeff: No, no, it's not Verizon. It's T-MObile,
thank you very much.
Leo: But it is LTE?
Jeff: It is LTE and I've been waiting forever.
Leo: I've got it on my WiFi Nexus
7 months ago. So good.
Jeff: I don't know why I had to wait so long.
Leo: Now you can unlock your Chromebook with it.
Jeff: Don't get me started. I'm going to talk to you about
websites if you're not nice to me.
Leo: By the way, they've already said Android 5.1 is on the
way.
Jeff: I'm already behind, yes.
Leo: It's going to ship on Android 1 phones – what is an
Android 1 phone, Jason? I don't even know what that is.
Jeff: That's the cheap one in India.
Leo: In Indonesia?
Jason: The low-cost Micromax devices in India.
Leo: They get Android 5.1 Lollipop before everybody else?
Are they trying to piss us off?
Jeff: I like that. That's justice.
Leo: Are they trying to get us angry here, now? Then Nexus
devices, when is it going to come? I don't know. It's out in Indonesia.
Jason: I don't know if we have a date on that but there are
devices running 5.1 right now.
Mike: Google's been doing that a lot, lately. They're
launching their Ara smart phone in Puerto Rico.
Leo: That makes sense.
Mike: From food trucks.
Leo: From what?
Mike: From food trucks. It's that food trucks are the
distribution mechanism for Ara. I'm not kidding, I'm
going. We should do – bring Padre and everybody down there.
Leo: Wait a minute, you mean you get some fried plantains
and an Ara phone? What?
Mike: I hope so.
Leo: Okay. All right, I'm done. I don't want to talk about Cyanogen, we kind of talked about it before. Microsoft has
invested money in them.
Jeff: There is one note off of last week's show. It was
after the show, I think, when we mentioned that Microsoft was investing in
Cyanogen. I was wondering why Cyanogen was so hostile to Google and now maybe
that's the reason.
Leo: Or the other way around, Microsoft said, “Hey, we like
these guys. They said they're going to kill Android.”
Jeff: Should we have a five seconds
of silence for Radioshack?
Leo: This has been the longest goodbye in history. We knew
they were running out of money. Now they're talking about selling some of their
stores to Sprint. Amazon wants to buy a handful, for what, distribution
centers?
Mike: Distribution centers, also as little mini Apple stores
to show off their hardware devices. But also, mostly, you know, pickup locations instead of having lockers, which they tried at 7-11.
Jeff: They have one test, I think
it's in Indiana, Purdue or some place.
Mike: Yes, Purdue and Amherst both have – they're not tests,
they're full in.
Leo: I actually think this is kind of terrible. Radioshack, there were thousands of stores and it was the
one place in many areas of the country where you could get electronics parts.
It kind of got away from that and I think it's one of the reasons – we talked
about this like two months ago when we first heard they were in trouble. I feel
like they missed the boat. If Radioshack had said,
“No, we're going to go after the maker movement, we're going to become an
electronics center, a hobbyist center,” they might have survived. Becoming
another place to buy a smart phone seemed like a bad idea.
Mike: The problem is that we're familiar with Fries out
here. Now, Fries is like, imagine a Radioshack that's
the size of a Costco and this really works, especially, there's several of them
in Silicon Valley that are packed to the gills. They also sell electronics,
vacuum cleaners, washing machines -
Leo: Even in areas where people are smart enough and wired
enough to buy online, they still go to brick and mortar.
Mike: Exactly. The problem with Radioshack is that they existed in an era where, you have an electronic device was to
tinker with it in some way, or reprogram it, whatever. Nowadays, people just
want to buy this appliance and forget about it except for the makers. And the
makers – the world is so much more complex now. A store that would really serve
the maker community would have to be enormous. Radioshacks are tiny. They have all these retail outlets, 4000 of them -
Leo: 4000, wow.
Mike: They used to have more of them, almost 6000. But these
are tiny little stores that can't really serve – you know, they can have soltering irons, batteries and things like that, but
really, a real maker person is – Radioshack is not
big enough to hold the things they might need unless they were 3D printing, in
which case, that might make sense.
Leo: Maybe this is the right end, they sell it to Sprint,
become Sprint stores, become half of them. The rest, Amazonshack,
they could call it.
Jason: Why not sell it to Google? Google, you got the money.
Buy these and put all your devices in there.
Leo: They were going to build barges.
Jason: They're doing all these weird things. No, just go the
straight way. Get Radioshack, put all your Nexus, your Nest and all of your whatever in there and people can
actually play with them.
Leo: Who needs the food truck?
Mike: There's an outside chance that some of these stores
may become co-branded Radioshack – remember Radioshack is not going out of business. They're declaring
bankruptcy. They may co-brand them with Sprint so they become Sprint Radioshack stores. That's the dark horse outcome but that
is one of the possibilities here that have to be mentioned.
Leo: Brookstone is also doing it,
right? Brookstone is thinking about it.
Mike: Right. There's a high-tech company for you. Get the
massager.
Leo: Brookstone is like the next
to go. Out of the frying pan, into the fire.
Let's take a break, when we come back, I've got a cool
tool, Jeff's got a number and we're going to let Mike find a thing. Look for
your thing, Mike. It's got to be here somewhere.
Jason: Where did you see it last?
Mike: You don't want to know.
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Somebody's pointing out that Staples is trying to buy Office
Depot. I think it really is tough times for brick and mortar right now, really
tough. Was it you, Jeff? Somebody was saying that the future – if you really
want to look at the future of retail, it's in high-touch, high-service – it's
not being a place where people go to buy stuff.
Jeff: It's marketing. It's marketing space.
Leo: It's about marketing; it's about training; it's about
creating a relationship. There's so much you can do with it and I think about
the independent bookstores that have survived, they're not trying to compete
with Amazon. They're not putting every book on the shelf. They have author
signings, authors speaking, smart clerks who can help
you find the right book. It's about service and I think there is an
opportunity, still, for brick and mortar. I don't see every store closing
downtown.
Jeff: When was the last time you were in a Best Buy?
Leo: Ages.
Jeff: Well, go to a Best Buy and you're going to be amazed.
Huge, gigantic space solely limited to Samsung, huge space to Microsoft, small
space to Google, huge space to Sony. They buy that space in stores.
Leo: It's all coop marketing dollars.
Jeff: That's what it is.
Leo: We want to buy 150 square feet and Best Buy says, if you want to get your products sold, you can either put
them with 18 other products on a dusty shelf that no one is paying any
attention too or you can set up a store. Apple did this first.
Mike: The gold standard is Apple, for sure.
Jeff: Here's the other part of the business model. So if you
go into Best Buy and you play with the Samsung phone there, Samsung doesn't
care whether you buy it at Best Buy or not. Samsung says, “This is our
marketing, this is our touch opportunity to show you the thing and show you how
wonderful it is.” I've talked in the past – I'm involved with a retail genius
named John Samson who has this vision for the future retail. I mentioned it in Public Parts briefly. He's a visionary
about this stuff and I think that's where retail goes is toward marketing and
we're starting to see the beginnings of this. But retail as a whole, as an
industry, becomes much smaller, far more efficient. I don't know about you but
I get frustrated – every time a retail space opens up, what goes in? A bank, a bank, a bank.
Leo: In Petaluma, it's antique
store, antique store, antique store. Even the bank has an antique store,
seriously.
Jeff: I now work in the center of the universe, if we do say
so ourselves, Times Square. I've got to walk 20 minutes to find a bookstore.
I've got to walk 20 minutes to find a Best Buy. There's nothing to browse. I
used to go out on lunch hour when I was pissed off and angry, and I'd calm
myself down by browsing, a record store, a bookstore, an electronics store. All gone, all gone.
Leo: That's really sad.
Jeff: That's life.
Leo: I think that's maybe because of the shortsightedness
of the retailers who didn't understand what business they were in. They thought
they were in the business of selling goods.
Jeff: Yes. Which, by the way, was a really
awful business. You had a capital risk. You had pilferage. You had all
kinds of awful things going on in retail, low margins.
Leo: Okay, Jeffrey Jarvis, number of the week.
Jeff: Jeffrey? Have I done something to anger you, boss?
“Jeffrey ...”
Leo: What's your middle name?
Jeff: Allen.
Leo: Jeffrey Allen Jarvis. You get in here. What's your –
ah!
Jeff: Okay, okay. [whimpering]
Leo: What's your number of the week?
Jeff: 524 million scolded bad ads killed by Google last
year. 524 million.
Leo: What was bad about them?
Jeff: I'll tell you. That amounted to 214 thousand
advertisers, which is interesting to me that that's basically an average of two
ads Google kills.
Leo: That's because these people weren't real advertisers,
they were malware vendors and things like that, right?
Jeff: Yes. 7000 promoted counterfeit goods, down from 14
thousand the year before, down from 82 thousand the year before that. So they
say they're making progress. Malicious software was 250 thousand sites doing
that in general. Then things like weight loss schemes -
Leo: You mean those belly fat ads? I got it. Belly fat? I
can has it.
Jeff: And so it's pretty amazing that Google is the cop of
the world and has to constantly worry about killing bad ads because it's bad
for the Google brand. It's bad to rip off the users.
Leo: They've also set up a system where you can
anonymously, without any human intervention, buy an ad. So they've set it up so
that bad ads have easy access.
Jeff: Exactly. They've also been taken to task and fined for
bad medical ads. So they have an obligation to do this. It's the cost of doing
business for them. So this is something – I wonder whether Matt Cutts has been involved in that.
Leo: It's kind of like spam but I bet you they have a whole
division dedicated to this.
Jeff: But there's a science of saying, how are the bad guys
going to act? That's my number.
Leo: There's his number. Do you want to do a tip or should
I?
Mike: Either way. I can go.
Leo: Go, go.
Mike: Epicurious, of course -
Leo: Love it!
Mike: Yes. It's a foodie magazine and they just, a week ago
or so, updated their website and now have updated
their apps.
Leo: Oh, I wonder if I have the latest.
Mike: Well, the Android app has not yet been updated, but
any minute now. The iOS app – [crosstalk]
Jeff: The website is very effective.
Mike: But that's from 2010, that version of the app. The new
version is absolutely spectacular.
Leo: Let's get an iOS – let's get a real phone over here
and see what it looks like. Oh, first of all, it changed to a light red.
Mike: Yes. So they've got – it's a very contemporary design,
very high performance.
Jeff: Very easy to search, very fast.
Mike: That's exactly it. It's a search that's super good, a
Google-like search. It's not Google, the engine behind it, but the quality of
the search is Conde Nast, yes.
Jeff: I was there. I was part of the original Epicurious team years ago. A woman named Joan Fenney and Rochelle Uddel did
brilliant work starting Epi long ago.
Leo: So the idea is that it's not – it's a search across a
variety of Conde Nast apps, right?
Mike: If you hit the hamburger, not the actual hamburger,
the – there you go. Go to home, you'll see that it has this – yes.
Leo: I'm at home.
Mike: So there's a thing right below the search bar, there
you go.
Leo: Oh, browse by category. Kid friendly, healthy food,
choose an ingredient.
Mike: They have a what's in season
in your area, so you can usually make -
Leo: What can I make with bourbon? No available recipes, oh
wait, there we go. 32 thousand – wait a minute. There's 185 bourbon recipes. Chocolate fudge with bourbon. Trouble in Paradise. Peach ginger and
bourbon.
Jeff: What's great about this too is that the cooks rate
them but they also modify them. They make suggestions about it. So for example,
I used -
Leo: So these are the user reviews, then.
Mike: Right, so whenever you see an ingredient you like, you
can save it to your shopping list. You can get alerts on your shopping list
when you're near a store that has those things.
Leo: Next time you're at the store, Mike, get a tablespoon of bourbon, would you?
Mike: Will do. It also has voice commands so you can
interact with the recipes by voice. Because you have stuff all over your hands
because you're cooking, you can talk to your phone to interact with a recipe.
It will tell you what's going on with the recipe. Lots of
different categories, like you saw.
Jeff: This is going to be used in the Elgan home to very good end.
Mike: That's right. So this brings the recipes specifically
from Bon Appetit, Self, Random House and others.
Jeff: Gourmet, may it rest in peace.
Mike: You can comment and interact with it sort of like a
social network for people cooking, which is kind of a cool idea.
Leo: There are lots of recipes – I've been using Big Oven,
which is kind of a recipe aggregator and has millions of recipes. The problem
is, you don't know what the quality is going to be.
These are all from – these are all published recipes, at least, right?
Jeff: And here's a little story from the early days of Epicurious. So we had the right to use all the recipes from
Gourmet and Bon Appetit, how could you beat that?
They were all just in print. So we had to get them re-typed and we hired a – I
didn't know this at the time. But there was, honest to god, ask Padre, there
was a service with monks. Rather than making fruitcake, they were typists.
Leo: Or illustrating bibles. Monks, they had a scriptorium,
right?
Jeff: Exactly. So the monks retyped all the recipes that
started Epicurious.
Leo: This spicy upscale popcorn, complies with
international ingredients. [singing like a monk]
Jeff: Since we're on foodie stuff, do you use Foodie, Mike?
Mike: No.
Leo: What's Foodie?
Jeff: Foodie is from Glam, my friends at Glam, now known as
Mode. It's an aggregation, a website aggregation and it's just people saving
recipes.
Mike: It's like the Pinterest of calories.
Leo: Oh, I want some. Oh, signing up.
Mike: Yes, look at that. It's some nice photography.
Jeff: You just want to start eating things.
Leo: See, this can't be good for a diet. I should have a
diet button that says, “I'm on a diet, only show me food that looks
disgusting.”
Mike: It should tie into quantified self
stuff and if you're already overweight, it should not show you this
stuff. Give me a break.
Leo: Right. Samoa cheesecake? This
is a cheesecake that looks like a Girl Scout cookie!
Jeff: Hassleback sweet potatoes
with Parmesan and sage.
Leo: Is it named after David Hasselback?
This is from a site called gimmesomeoven.com. I like it. Foodies are great.
Don't you love foodies? F-O-O-D-I-E. This is nice,
Jeff. I like it.
Jeff: Isn't it? What this does is send the traffic – if you
click on a recipe, you'll go to a page – it's still Foodie, that mentions some
of the ingredients and stuff but you don't get the whole recipe there. You only
get it when you go to the creator's site. So it's a way to send traffic to the
creators' sites along the way. Glam will be doing more of this in the future.
Leo: Well, I am now a Foodie member. I signed up. Do they have
another companion site called Nudie? Because I would go there
too.
Mike: It's a great site. You can go there and not buy
clothes. There's a commerce model that isn't really working.
Leo: I'm not going to make this, white chocolate-covered
Ritz crackers. Nope, nope, not going to make it. Not
going to do it.
Mike: I'm sorry. Packaged food like Ritz crackers is not an
ingredient.
Leo: I'm sorry. Somebody said, “Oh, you would love this
restaurant.” They had a dessert made of Nutella. I said, “You know, I don't go
to restaurants where they take the dessert out of a jar.” On the other hand,
chocolate chip cookies in a jar, maybe I'd do that. Mm, that's a gift.
Jason: Oh hey, we got that. We got that for Christmas,
actually. It's all the ingredients, yes, and it looks all nifty in the jar. We
haven't made it yet. We need to make it.
Leo: That's so clever. It comes with everything you need.
It's kind of like a Blue Apron for chocolate chip cookies. Look, did they even
put the measuring spoons?
Jason: I didn't get the measuring spoons. I'll have to talk
to whoever gave us that gift.
Leo: “Hey, you're supposed to put measuring spoons.”
Jason: It's okay, we have tons of
measuring spoons.
Leo: That's the last thing you need more of. All right, my
tip. There's a genesis to this story. We had talked before about Google's App
Inventor. This was a system that Google had created to make it very easy to
write Android apps, not sophisticated Android apps but children and people like
me, hobbyists, could learn how to write software and learn how to write it for
Android phones. It actually would package your software up not only for your
own phone but for sale on the Play Store. It was a really great thing, Google
gave it up. They gave it to MIT. MIT has released App Inventor 2 and I've been
looking to write an app for a Nexus 7 tablet that would help me with the radio
show. I started – I downloaded the new Google – upgraded development engine and
all that stuff. It was just like, “Oh, please.” It was way over my head and I
said, “I don't have time to learn all this stuff.”
So I downloaded this and this is the coolest thing
ever. Everybody's got to try this. It's called – it's free. If you go to
appinventor.mit.edu, you create new projects – I'll show you, I have a few
projects. They have pretty good tutorials. In fact, this is the first tutorial.
I'll show you this one. It's called “Talk to Me.” Now,
the first thing you're going to do is connect to your phone. I don't know why
my – I don't know if you can see my phone. I'm going to connect to my AI
companion by – you're going to have to follow me on this one, it's a little
complicated.
Now go to my screen, there you go. There's a QR code, I
scan the QR code into the phone and now, it's given me a code. We're both on
the same WiFi. The app appears on the phone and as
you modify the app, it's instantly, no USB connection – let me – this is the
designer. She designed the UI here and they've got a lot of tools. They've got
buttons, checkboxes, layout tools. They've even got Lego Minestorm tools, if you have Lego Minestorm.
Storage, social, censors, you can use the accelerometer, the bar code, clock,
location, all of the stuff on your phone. Then you go into blocks – look at
this.
This is the programming interface. So I put on this
screen a text box. These are all the commands I can use for a text box. A button and text-to-speech. Let's set this up. I'm going to
write – now, by the way, if you saw that message in there, just ignore that. I
was showing the 12-year old how to do this and he decided to put profane
messages in here. So – but that's cool, right? What better way to get a kid
into programming. So I know your son Kevin does Tinker, which is a similar kind
of system on iOS. So I have now written this software. It is on the phone
instantly and watch, I can do a couple of things.
If I shake – let me turn up the volume here. If I shake
the phone, I've told it to say something.
Phone: Stop shaking me. Stop shaking me.
Leo: But I can also enter some text. This is an actual
Android app. “This is some text.” It took me about three seconds to write,
honestly, and I can speak it.
Phone: This is some text.
Leo: But the point is, you now have an app and as you
modify the app on your screen, on the App Inventor, it will immediately go over
to your phone through the WiFi. You can prototype,
turn it around very quickly. It has a great programming interface. Show the
screen again if you would, Jason.
Phone: Stop shaking me.
Leo: I know, I'm shaking you and I shouldn't. It's got all
of this stuff built in, logic, math, text and they're all snappable.
So for instance, if you put something in here, if you drag it on to the
interface, it'll show you puzzle pieces and only things with that shape can go
into there. It is spectacular. I was able to get the accelerometer sensor
working in such a way that when the accelerometer starts shaking, call
text-to-speech and then speech this message. That's just a text message that
snaps on there like a puzzle piece.
Folks, if you've been interested in programming, if you
have an Android device and you'd like to learn a little bit more about it – if
you want an easy way to create your own apps or even, believe it or not,
there's the ability to package these up so you can sell or give them away on the
Play Store. You've got to take a look. They've really made something special
here. The MIT App Inventor 2. I feel pretty good about
this. I feel like I'm going to be able to write the very simple software I
needed, to be a timer for the radio show – I want it to flash red when I'm
running out of time and green when I have some time left, and count down so I
can go to the bathroom and look, “Oh, I've got a minute left.” I've needed this
for some time. I wrote something in Apple script ages ago but I'll put this in
the Nexus 7 and it'll be great.
Mike: The problem is, you're going to be in the bathroom and
it's going to say, “Stop shaking me.”
Leo: “Stop shaking me.”
Phone: Stop shaking me. Stop, stop shaking me. Stop shaking
me.
Leo: You can change it. I can actually change this to,
“Stop shaking me, Mike.” Look how fast it changes that.
Phone: Stop shaking me, Mike.
Mike: Great, throw me under the bus.
Leo: Ladies and gentlemen, we are done with This Week in
Google. Mike Elgan, good to have you. Catch Mike on
Monday through Friday, 10 a.m. Pacific, 1 p.m. Eastern time, 1800 UTC for your
daily dose of tech news. You're going to Barcelona.
Mike: Barcelona, yes. Looking forward to
it, to cover Mobile World Congress.
Leo: Early next month, 3rd through 5th, I think?
Mike: Yes. 2nd through 5th, yes.
Leo: So live reports?
Jeff: Do you and Jason, all you three, think Samsung going
to redeem itself with the next phone?
Leo: I like the Note 4. I think the Note 4 is actually
great. Oh, you mean, in its keynote presentations?
Mike: Yes. I think they might. I'm rooting for the new Edge,
with the Edge on both sides. Make it more mainstream and make it kind of work
better, like you pointed out all the flaws on it. But I'd love something like
that to bring the price down a little bit. But it's going to be something
curved no matter what, I guarantee.
Leo: Mobile World Congress has become, I forget CES now. I
really think that the most interesting stuff is happening in Barcelona.
Jeff: Jason, what do you think?
Leo: He wants to go, that's what he thinks. He wishes he
was going.
Jason: Yes. It's really a bummer that I can't be there.
Leo: Can't send all of you.
Jason: I'll be curious to see what they do. I mean, the
invite for the event clearly showed the contour of the Edge. So I don't know if
that means new Note Edge or the S6 now has Edge in it and that's just the new
design of the S6.
Jeff: What I asked is, do you think
they'll redeem themselves?
Jason: Oh. I think so. I think they're on the right track. I
think they're changing their approach.
Leo: The Note 4 is a great device. I think the S5 was a
little crufted up but the Note 4 is great. I don't
think Samsung needs to redeem itself. It does in its presentations, if that's
what you mean. Here's the invitation. “What's next?”
Jason: Everybody's kind of expecting a more metallic body,
metallic design as opposed to the plastic.
Leo: It looks like a fork. I think they're going to do a
fork, that's what I think.
Mike: It'll only work with the Samsung Galaxy S6 and nothing
else.
Leo: So we will be covering Mobile World Congress. Mike
will be there. Now, because of the time difference, all the stuff that's
happening is happening in the middle of the night California time, but you're
still going to do it.
Mike: Yes.
Leo: 1 a.m. Pacific, 4 a.m. Eastern time, tune in. That's 9
a.m. in Barcelona – or 10 a.m. in Barcelona?
Jeff: We'll just be back from dinner.
Mike: Well, you don't have dinner in Spain until 11 p.m. or
something like that.
Leo: 11 p.m., what are you? 2 a.m., come on. What are you,
an early eater? What are you, 60 years old? Thank – that's when the early bird
specials are at Denny's Barcelona.
Thank you for joining us, everybody. Thank you, too, Jeff Jarvis from the City University
of New York, buzzmachine.com and Geeks
Bearing Gifts.
Jeff: Thank you for the plug.
Leo: Hold up the book, hold up the book. Imagining
new futures.
Mike: Look at that. It's a geek bearing a gift.
Leo: There he is, with a gift just for you.
Phone: Shake me harder. Shake me harder.
Mike: Oh boy.
Phone: Shake me harder.
Leo: You can do anything you want.
Phone: Shake, shake, shake me
harder.
Mike: Thank you for removing “Mike” from that.
Leo: Thanks for joining us. We do TWiG every Wednesday afternoon, 1 p.m. Pacific, 4 p.m. Eastern time, 2100 UTC.
Please join us, we'd love to see you here. If you
can't be here, don't worry about it. We've always got on-demand versions of all
of our shows at the website TwiT.tv and in this case, TwiT.tv/twig. Also, on
YouTube/thisweekingoogle and wherever you find your
podcasts, including those great apps written by many talented third party
developers on iOS, Android, Windows Phone, Roku – we don't have a Chrome
extension yet but I guess you could just go to -
Jason: No, we do. We do.
Leo: We do? We have an extension?
Mike: For live, TwiT.live.tv – we have an extension.
Leo: Go to live.twit.tv.
Mike: I have the extension, it's really great.
Leo: Somebody wrote an extension?
Mike: Called Floating TWiT. Boom.
Leo: Boom, booyah. Get Floating TWiT and never miss another show. Thanks for joining us, we'll see you next time on Twig! Bye, bye.